This is just too convenient:
This guy just can’t catch a break.
First, the CIA sandbags President Bush with a bunch of bogus intelligence about Iraq.
Now it turns out that the military payroll records that could have helped prove that he really did serve his Air National Guard duty in Alabama in 1972 and 1973 were “inadvertently destroyed” in a tragic microfilm accident.
The Times has more on the president’s latest brush with cruel fate.
Categories: Election 2004, In the News
11:57 pm | 10 comments
July 9th, 2004 at 12:07 pm
I have been reading through the blog site and I find it interesting that we condemn people like FOX news for being partisan but we are able to be ultra-liberal or ultra-conservative whenever we choose. I agree that news should be fair and balanced. The viewer/reader should be able to make their mind up by reading objective facts that leave the conclusion open to interpretation. I also believe that documentaries should have to live up to some real standard of reporting before it can be considered a documentary. A documentary present facts. An opinion (or in Michael Moore’s case… an agenda for profit disguised as a documentary) should clearly have it’s own category. And to prove I am not on Michael Moore’s case only, I will rant and rave about the disingenious film being made about Bill Clinton this year as well. A film should present fact, not one side… so to should our press. BUT I live in the real world and know that the ridiculous drivel we read and see is only propagated by the mere fact… that we continue to spend money to see and read drivel! Capitalism at it’s best, I love it!!
With that said, the following email was sent to me. It examines Clinton and Bush… and from what I can see, it is about 90% accurate.
Here is the email:
Perhaps someone can explain this more clearly!
Same facts but opposite conclusions. Here’s a set of thoughts comparing the overseas messes of the past decade or so and placing them in a somewhat clearer, but still confusing, light. I’m trying to get all this political stuff straightened out in my head so I’ll know how to vote come November. Right now, we have one guy saying one thing. Then the other guy says something else. Who to believe. Lemme see, have I got this straight?
Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good…
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad…
Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good…
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad…
Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good…
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad…
Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists -good…
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad…
Clinton invades Haiti and attacks Serbia without UN approval, congressional support or public backing - good
Bush invades Iraq with UN approval and overwhelming congressional support - bad
Clinton bombs Chinese embassy, some empty mud huts in Afghanistan, and a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan - good…
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad…
Clinton commits many felonies while in office - good…
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad…
Clinton says there are mass graves in Serbia - good…
Bush and entire world says WMD in Iraq - bad…
No mass graves found in Serbia - good…
No WMD found Iraq - bad…
Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good…
Recession under Bush - bad…
Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good…
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad…
Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good…
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad…
Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good…
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad…
Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good…
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad…
Serbs who comitted atrocities still free - good…
Saddam in custody - bad…
Ah, it’s so confusing!
…. so, as I said… interesting when we compare how party dictates the opinion. Not that the opinion dictates to the party.
Free speech is a great thing!
July 9th, 2004 at 1:27 pm
Doug, give it up… half of what you just posted is pure BS.
Pithy little summaries of complex issues with “good” or “bad” after them don’t really show anything.
The vast majority of the complaints about Bush have to do with one central problem of this administration: they lie, lie, lie to promote an agenda that does little good for anyone aside from their core fundraisers. For example, on the economic issues, we were told that job creation was the primary motivation for the tax cuts. A large number of economists have come out and condemned that line of reasoning as flawed. More importantly, the job creation numbers aren’t showing the numbers that Bush promised. So far, we’ve had two months in the nearly 20 months since the tax cut that have shown the job creation numbers that the Bush admin promised.
As for the other crap in your post, half of them are inaccurate. Clinton had no opportunity to take custody of bin Laden . That’s on the truth level of Bush’s uranium from Niger story.
There are also a number of former administration officials coming out and saying that Bush lied about going to Iraq, started planning the war before 9/11 happened, and generally screwed up the war in Iraq.
You can argue your little Good/Bad points all you want, but it’s not the what that’s the issue with Bush in most of what you’ve written… it’s the how and the why that’s the problem, something you conveniently ignore in your list above.
Finally, documentaries present opinion all the time, every time. Even research papers present opinion. History books present opinion. They all do, because people write them. They might contain facts, but they also present interpretations of the author of the work. To take Moore to task is your prerogative, but it’s not simply enough to say that he presents opinion. And what the hell is that crap about a profit motive? Should he release the movie for free???
July 9th, 2004 at 1:37 pm
Doug, read something: http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2004_archives/001168.html
http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2004_archives/000419.html
Those two are from a real-life economist.
Bush admin pressured an anaylst to not tell Congress about the true cost of the Medicare bill (something that is illegal, btw): http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6339-2004Mar18?language=printer
Just some more examples of your BS above. Let’s not quibble about UN approval. Oh, wait, here’s an exchange from the press gaggle from a few days ago: http://www.pressgaggle.com/d/000468.html
There’s a link that goes to the white house site so you can see that the transcript is accurate.
If you want to be a Republican hack, that’s great. Just be a truthful, honest, and insightful Republican. That’s all I ask.
July 9th, 2004 at 1:48 pm
one last thing: I like you as a person, doug, and I think my quick post (i’m trying to do work) may come off as harsh. It’s not meant to. Just, if you’re going to come onto my turf and try to discuss something I care about a lot (policy and politics), bring something more to the table than pithy comments.
The good/bad thing annoyed me because it’s just foolish debating, especially since both Republicans and Democrats (honest ones, at least) can show how most of the analogies above are flawed.
Sites like Spinsanity.org, for example, and a project I’m working on called PseudoThought, aim more for objectivity. Spinsanity does a great job breaking down the gray areas in the issues you’ve tried to raise above.
July 10th, 2004 at 10:17 am
Sujal
First….the good/bad thing was a reprint of an email sent to me that shows how opinion dictates the party… not the other way around.
Unlike most, I can separate my politics from my friendships. I never condemn a thought or an opinion. I value it. I might disagree but I value it.
Republican hack?! If that was a shot at my political campaign, you need to visit my web site. I have spent too many years working with and for families in the non-profit sector to ever be considered a hack… but if you refer to others… point taken.
Finally, 90% of the reprinted email is accurate… Michael Moore’s film has many, many lies… not opinion….lies contained within… and finally, 1.2 million jobs have been created since last August, the laster quarter was the greatest economic growth in the past 20 years, and most economists I have read say the US economy is about to rebound historically in the next 9 months.
Either way… all the conspiracy theories are funny… boith sides of the aisle….
BTW, Priest Holmes for 60!
Peace out…have a great weekend… and never mind about being harsh, debate is what makes this country great. All opinions filtered together to come up with the best comprehensive plan!!!
July 10th, 2004 at 10:18 am
I meant to say….party dictates the opinion above…. sorry typing fast
July 10th, 2004 at 12:45 pm
amazing when typing fast, the truth comes out…
You can care about families all you want, but when you start regurgitating Republican party talking points, that’s just being a hack.
Second, the email isn’t accurate… if you want me to go down through it, line-by-line with links and articles, I will. It’s pretty easy to dismiss all of them.
Two reasons will apply to most: 9/11 gave Bush and the United States international good will and a mandate internationally to declare war against countries like Afghanistan. That mandate didn’t exist before 9/11 so it’s unrealistic to expect Clinton to have launched a full attack. Richard Clarke, in his book, claims that they also knew that Republicans in Congress would attack mercilessly if they launched a major military operation because of the Lewinsky scandal. The Congressional Republicans didn’t care to differentiate between good military action and bad military action because they only cared about attacking Clinton with both barrels.
Second simple debunking item: No one is calling things “bad” in some of the cases above… for example, Bush bombing terrorist camps… I don’t think you saw any notable uproar when we attacked Afghanistan, because we were attacking terrorist camps. Contrast that with Iraq, where there were massive protests (the biggest I’ve ever seen in my lifetime) in major cities in the U.S. and around the world. If you can’t differentiate between that, you’re unfit for public office.
As for your comments about the economy, read some of the links I posted. Even tax cut friendly publications like the Economist have been saying that Bush’s tax cuts have had little to nothing to do with creating jobs or boosting the economy. For example, take the dividend tax cut. If you work with families, tell me how many of them make any incoming from dividends. Tell me if they can even buy an extra Christmas or birthday present for their children with their dividend income.
In the end, the policies will ruin us down the road as Bush has created massive deficits. I was reading an article today that pointed out that the Bush estimates of surplus growth during the 2000 campaign already took into consideration massive spending cuts in the future. Remember that 1.9 trillion dollar surplus? Read this article: http://www.pkarchive.org/column/2200.html
Then, read Brad DeLong’s commentary here: http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2004_archives/001164.html
Did you see Moore’s movie? There aren’t lies in it… I’ve read a number of reviews, including those at the Weekly Standard and Fox. They haven’t pointed a substantial lie in the entire movie. The biggest complaints have been about innuendo and some fun with statistics. Again, the best review I’ve seen so far is at Spinsanity, a non-partisan site: http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20040702.html They take Moore to task on a number of things, but even they admit “it appears to be free of the silly and obvious errors that have plagued Moore’s past work.”
I suggest you read this post if you’d like another insight into why the tax cuts had little to do with job creation: http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2004_archives/001051.html
July 10th, 2004 at 1:02 pm
I just typed in Serbian Mass Graves into google and got this (from 1999): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/368524.stm
Check out the search results yourself.
I can do this for all of them, Doug. Let me know if you want to actually get into a debate (i’ll even go on TV with you). We can do it here, just be prepared to bring evidence (URLs, article dates, etc) instead of making blanket accusations.
Remember, you can’t trust every forwarded email you get.
July 10th, 2004 at 10:28 pm
Regarding the Moore political advertisement, the Liberal writer, Christopher Hitchens writes about the Lies of this film:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
As for everything else… If you read my first email (or I had explained my point more clearly){choose one}, I was making a mockery of the email I reprinted. Although fairly accurate, it was a joke to show how ridiculous this years presidential race has gotten.
You and I can debate back and forth all we want and in the end we probably won’t change anyone’s opinion… and probably not even each others opinion of what is right and what is wrong (and even then neither one of us will be 100% right).
I respect both men running for President for their service. I disagree with many issues of both, and I agree (to some extent) with both candidates on many issues as well. I understand what each brings to the table and what each has endured to be where they are today… But I want to digress for one moment.
I state above “I respect both men for their service.” It is easy for people to chastise them for their careers and some of or all of their decisions. As Lowell Weiker once said to a small group of us back in CT… the only universal truth in politics is that no matter what a politician does, he/she is always wrong… no greater truth has ever been said.
Depending on the person making the statement or taking the vote. The position taken by both will be wrong in someone’s eyes. These men have different careers. They have both made mistakes and within those mistakes, they have both made contributions to humanity. They have both made sacrifices and within those sacrifices both men have made themselves susceptible to scrutiny. An intense scrutiny that you, nor I, nor any other person in this country can ever fathom.
Do I think John Kerry is a bad person? No. Do I think John Kerry is a bad politician? No. Do I think John Kerry is a Democratic Hack? No. (I don’t use this term with either party) Do I agree with all of his policies and plans? No.
Do I think George Bush is a bad person? No. Do I think George Bush is a bad politician? No. Do I believe George Bush is a Republican hack? No. (see above) Do I agree with all of his policies and plans? No.
The great thing about Democracy is that you do not have to agree with everything everyone in your party says or does!
Do I understand the process? Yes. I understand it more then I could ever explain it to you here in your blog room. And so I am left with the original email that has led to a debate that really has strayed from the original intent of my original response to your blog about conspiracy theories.
I get these crazy emails about this years Presidential election. Dictated by party. Someone with an agenda. There are movies. Dictated by party. Someone with an agenda. (the stupidity of it all is that there will be a film about Clinton soon. It will be filled with the same number, if not more, lies then this film). There are irresponsible press outlets. Dictated by party. Someone with an agenda.
If we realize the insanity of it all but use our minds to read all sides and know when drivel is drivel and fact is fact, then we as a country will be informed and will be able to make the right choice on election day. Do I know what that choice will be? No. Do I have an opinion? Yes. Will I respect the choice that is made? Yes. Will I ask God to bless this individual and to guide them in the right direction? I have done this every day since 1978 (when I became politically involved at age 9).
Do I pray that I will make the right decisions after I win in November? Yes. Will I make mistakes? I pray I don’t, but I might. What will be the motivator for my decisions? The people of my town… Not liberalism, not conservatism, not even individualism; My decisions and choices will be based on what is in the best interest of the people who have placed their solemn trust, belief, and faith in me. I only pray that I will not let them down.
The key to meeting those expectations is to listen, to learn, and always be willing to accept all opinions as relevant. Because to someone else, they are; and for that reason alone, they should be just as important as my own.
Don’t be too caught up in what others believe or say (all of us can’t always be right). Educate yourself and know in your heart what is right. And if we disagree, God Bless this country for giving us the freedom to do so.
And God Bless the men and women of the US Congress and Senate, The President, The members of every court system and every state legislature. May they always remember that politics is about public service and that to serve the public well, all one has to do is to be willing to listen, understand, and empathize.
Have a great weekend. And still… Priest Holmes for 60!
Peace out.
July 11th, 2004 at 1:48 am
Hitchens is about as liberal as you are. And what the hell does it matter that he’s “Liberal?”
I’ll respond more tomorrow, I’ve been out all day. Short response: moral equivocation. There are many subjective things in the world. Indeed, one of my favorite sayings is that life is full of grays (it’s the reason for the color scheme at FatMixx, btw). We make subjective choices all the time that affect our decisions.
That isn’t to say that there isn’t honesty or truth in the world. I’m not motivated by party but by my convictions. I was once a registered Republican and now I’m a registered Democrat because of the issues not because of someone’s agenda. I don’t watch Moore and think he’s 100% accurate just as I read Andrew Sullivan and try to give him a fair shake. Be critical thinkers, understand that life is about tradeoffs and move forward.
You also said in your first post that the email you received was “about 90% accurate.” Doesn’t sound like you were making fun of it to me.
I also disagree with you… I think Bush is a bad person, not because of party but because he has lied in ways that have hurt you and I and thousands of families across the U.S. unnecessarily. Whether motivated by blind theory (e.g. neoconservative nation building) or by greed and ambition (e.g. help fundraisers/be great War President), he has ignored and manipulated the civil servants around him. He’s rewarded honesty with dismissals and diligent research and analysis with a deaf ear. That is wrong.
Let me know how many people in your district will benefit from the dividend tax break. How many of them will benefit from the 6 point reduction in the tax rate for the top bracket while the rest of us got 5 points or less? Let me know how the Medicare bill helps your constituents when it complicates a patient’s relationship with their insurance companies in direct benefit for the insurance company (by locking them in).
By saying that we shouldn’t get too caught up in what others think, you’ve simply ducked the issues. By simply saying, well, both guys are good and bad, you’ve simply ducked any questions of policy. If you really believe that both are the same, who are you going to vote for? I have a sneaking suspicion you’re going to go by party lines here…
more tomorrow, cause it’s late and I’m tired.